Ranting about the decline of comedy specials while releasing a new one at the same time feels a bit like an oxymoron. But somehow it still makes sense coming from alt-comedy pioneer David Cross, who isnโt just complaining; heโs finding his own route to making specials feel special again. The only way to do that is by putting one out in the manner heโd like to see more often โ starting by making the whole crowd stand up too.
Capturing the energy of a concert at the famous 40 Watt Club in Athens, Ga., was the first step in differentiating โThe End of the Beginning of the Endโ from the typical hour you watch on a big streamer. And, with this new special, Cross is able to get back to his own beginnings of touring across the country with love bands as his openers, performing for crowds for as long as he could until he had to run offstage to pee.
Premiering the special earlier this month on his website (and on April 7, it will be available on YouTube via production company 800 Pound Gorilla), Cross is hoping the special connects with comedy fans in a way that weโve forgotten specials could.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity
Your new special is called โThe End of the Beginning of the End.โ What does that title mean to you as it relates to the impending doom of what weโre all living right now.
David Cross: Well, you can look at it in a couple different ways. To me, it signifies that the beginning of the end has occurred. And we are now at the end of the beginning of the end. And from where you go with that, thatโs for you to decide.
One of the things I love about the special is the fact that you shoot it at a club in the style of a live–music concert.
Iโve shot specials in theaters and itโs just different, not that one is better than the other, but theyโre just different. You have a different relationship with the audience. When I first started touring, I would go to music venues and Iโd have a band open for me and then I would just go up and pretty much [perform] as long as I could until I had to pee. Sometimes Iโd have a band playing, sometimes two bands, then Iโd go out. And I did that a couple of times, and then stopped doing that and did theaters, and I decided for the last two specials Iโm going to go to, when I shoot it, Iโll go to a music venue, and I was at the 40 Watt Club in Athens this last time, I was at the Metro in Chicago before that, both places I played on earlier tours, and, you know, itโs not seated. People are standing there at the stage, and I prefer it. Itโs more fun. Itโs not as lucrative but, to me, a more fun show to do.
Comedian David Cross
(Jason Armond / Los Angeles Times)
The ambience of it was great. You can hear people shouting and drinking and having a good time, and the crowd work is also a little more spontaneous and fun than it would be in a regular venue.
Yeah, well, thereโs more opportunity for that. But my thing has never been about crowd work. I like engaging with it, itโs kind of a nice distraction from the set that youโve been doing 100 times, 150 times at that point. So itโs always fun to have that thing happen and that feeling of spontaneity. And like the guy [who I talk to in the crowd during the special], I could not have asked for [someone better]. I mean, even if it was scripted, it wouldnโt have been as good. The guy who [I talk to] during the stuff about hiking Machu Picchu [with Bob Odenkirk], thatโs just… [chefโs kiss].
Speaking of Bob Odenkirk, you guys have this long relationship. How would you describe the dynamic of working with Bob and just how you guys bounce ideas off each other?
I mean, itโs great. We have an inordinate amount of respect for each other, both as people and as creative partners. And so thereโs never any real issues. Thereโs things we will definitely disagree with, but weโre both decent people. So you know somebody backs off and says, โOK, letโs do it that way.โ But even then, there arenโt that many of those [issues]. We just have really worked well at building something or molding it, creating it and shaping it. And our aforementioned hike to Machu Picchu, we have a documentary about that, that will be premiering at a fancy festival at some point in the near-future. And so we got that doc and weโve been working on that. And for the way we work now, because he lives in L.A. and I live in New York, and itโs been like that for a while, heโll write a bunch of stuff, Iโll make notes, Iโll write my things, send it back. And so weโre able to do that and not necessarily have to be in the same room because weโve had 30-plus years of working with each other.
Itโs a kind of like an unspoken language you guys probably have in terms of comedy, which is super important, I imagine, just for collaborating.
Yeah, and itโs something we discovered very early on … before there was even โMr. Show,โ what would ultimately become โMr. Show,โ when we got together to write sketches for this bigger kind of comedy collective thing, and these shows that we would all do with each other, for each other, and the stuff that we would write together was just, like, really good, easy writing โ again, one person adding this thing and one person saying hereโs a switch yeah and another person adding this thing in. It was fun, itโs cool, still is. One thing he doesnโt get credit for is heโs a really decent human being. And with all the awfulness in the world thatโs magnified, every sense is bombarded with it โ itโs just good to be hanging with somebody whose energy is a good person, a decent person and an equitable, nice guy, so thatโs good as well.
Comedian David Cross poses for a portrait ahead of his comedy special โThe End of the Beginning of the End.โ
(Jason Armond / Los Angeles Times)
One thing you guys also have in common is you both have kids, and he has a comedy show for kids called โThe Appropriate Show.โ Have you taken your daughter to see it?
Itโs a sketch show [in which] all the sketches are appropriate for kids to watch. And the sketches have been done in other sketch shows onstage, live. And he puts together this thing once, twice a year here in L.A. And I took my daughter to it last year. Itโs just sketches that kids can [understand]. At least if they donโt understand the actual references they get the archetype. โOh, thatโs the boss, thatโs that uh… And itโs great, itโs a really cool idea uh… โ And would an assโ think of [a show like] that? No, one good decent person; a good man. But listen, this interview isnโt about me, itโs about Bob Odenkirk, so letโs get back to that.
Well, speaking of having comedy geared toward kids, your daughterโs at an age where sheโs probably consumed or seen some of your comedy at this point.
Not, not really. No, no.
Do you shield her from your stuff, or are you not so concerned about it?
I donโt actively shield her, but I donโt introduce her to anything. So I was a little bummed out, and I got over it pretty quickly, but when I found out that she had seen a little bit of โAlvin and the Chipmunks,โ and only because I donโt want to spoil the enjoyment of what movies are and what kidsโ movies are and how things work. And I feel like that would introduce an element of reality that I want her to be able to just enjoy these things without โ sheโs seen โKung Fu Pandaโwhen she was younger, like, I donโt know, three, four, five times, has no idea that Iโm in that, that my voice is in there. She knows I do stand-up, she gets that now. And when she was younger, sheโd say, โDaddyโs silly for a living.โ … Iโm just trying to ride the balance of letting her have those childhood joys and experiences.
Comedian David Cross.
(Jason Armond / Los Angeles Times)
Does having a kid make you think about whatโs coming up in the future of comedy, or what kids are gonna maybe find funny, or what they find funny now? Do you have any thoughts on kid comedy in general?
Not really. I mean, I can see that she and her friends, who are kind of like-minded, are naturally funny, and then thatโs kind of encouraging and heartwarming and theyโre silly, but Iโll be long gone when that generation is is providing comedy. And Iโm still, although Iโve kind of given up, Iโm still trying to grasp what works now. I mean, itโs short-term TikTok, Instagram stuff. There are some amazing, like really, really great things being done as far as film sketches for YouTube channels. โAlmost Friday,โ theyโve got genius-level stuff. I mean, really good. And where the sketch goes in a place, youโre never ahead of it, goes in a place where youโre not expecting. Itโs really well written and well performed.
What are your thoughts on what a comedy special is nowadays or what it should be?
I mean, thatโs a great question. I think anybody who plays with the form, whether I think itโs that funny or not, is different. But Iโm happy when anybody kind of tries at least to play with a form. I just went to Rory Scovelโs taping last week of his latest special. I donโt know when thatโll air, but if youโve seen the beginning to his first special, stuff like that where youโre like, โWait, whatโs happening? Whatโs going on?โ I love stuff like that.
I still get excited to watch specials by some of my favorite comics, but thereโs a quality thatโs missing. And these are stand-ups I love, and theyโre not that great. Theyโre not bad but theyโre not special, you know? And all those guys I mentioned, and more, have great specials. Like, you can go back and theyโre great. And I donโt know why that is. I mean, thereโs still funny stuff, but I donโt ever want to get to that place where its just feels a little phoned-in a little bit… that is, in part, why the last two specials were shot in this more intimate setting that feels special. And … as I said, the energyโs different, itโs a little bit different, and itโs less slick. It feels like youโre in the moment. You donโt need a million dollars to shoot a special. You donโt 28 camera angles, itโs just bullโ. And it takes something away.
Comedian David Cross
(Jason Armond / Los Angeles Times)
It all should feel the right amount of unsafe as well, I think.
Thatโs never gonna happen at a theater show. Youโre never gonna feel that. And I donโt know, it really does feel almost like maybe we peaked in a sense, like thereโs too much, and because of that, these things arenโt special. Theyโre not revelatory, theyโre not unique. I dunno, can 18,000 people in an arena really relate to a … billionaire talking about how theyโre gonna get canceled. I mean, is that a thing I guess? Those other big, slick specials that are shot in, like, a 3,200-seat, 3,500-seat theater, it just feels like, โOh this person is up there and Iโm listening to their jokes.โ Thereโs nothing wrong with that. Theyโre often very funny jokes, but it doesnโt go beyond that. Itโs just like, โAll right, tell me your joke.โ It might as well be an audio thing, you know?
Well, hopefully the robots arenโt coming for your job anytime soon.
Absolutely not. I mean, this could be naive, but I feel 100% safe that you are never going to replicate an evening of stand-up at a nigtclub like that. And not sitting down at tables while youโre having drinks and waitresses are coming by. Iโm talking about everybodyโs up on the stage, sold-out, maximum capacity; everybodyโs there, focused, weโre all sharing that thing. You canโt. AIโs not going to be able to do that.
Yeah, the robots canโt do that, Terminator canโt do that..
Oh, I forgot about Terminator. He could do that. Gโ it.
